It has long been predicted that the world would converge toward Western democratic values of tolerance, "live and let live" social norms, and diversity. New research shows a more complex picture.
This should make heads explode! The world and cultural attitudes are different and why should we be surprised by that? Even within the US, and even within states there are huge cultural and value divides. So we really should not be shocked by any of these findings.
The problem is we in the West, despite becoming more tolerant, cannot easily wrap our heads around different cultural, social, and economic contexts unless one is well traveled such as you are, Brian. I say this as somebody who has traveled widely for work in Africa, SE Asia, and Latin America.
I would also argue that in the West, we have become too comfortable and then compare ourselves to the ultra wealthy or the famous making normal lives seem dull and often crushing. Maybe that explains the satisfaction results from Pakistan and other poor countries?
Arguments such as Fukuyama’s “End of History” or Huntington’s “Clash of Civilizations” show an arrogance in the West, and frankly a level of cluelessness and dismissiveness toward the rest of the world.
Nothing can change if we fail to understand what is in front of our eyes and understand the complexity and nuance of cultural and socioeconomic factors. While
The West may be more tolerant, it fails to recognize and understand context, nuance, and differences making it a “close minded” tolerance.
I appreciate that your summary emphasised complexity and not taking for granted the values Westerners see around them. Especially so since there’s a large scale, well-funded effort to erode those progressive gains to drag countries back to intolerance. The political battles in the West (France, UK, Canada, US) are producing increasing gains for intolerance within nations even when the electoral outcome at the top appears to defend progressive norms. Protect values if you want to keep them.
Genuine question. Who answers the surveys and how are they conducted? Are they, for example, written surveys filled out in private? Is it phone or otherwise live? Especially in those parts of the world where women are severely limited, would results from those countries be skewed by male-only responses? Is that controlled for somehow?
Most of us certainly luckier living in the West but that does not say that our notion of progress of endless material growth on a finite planet isn’t suicidal as it creates the greatest concentration of wealth-the growth of monopolies-oligarchs-plutarchy Gabor Mate in The Myth of Normal: Trauma, Illness in a Toxic Culture and Iain McGilchrist in The Matter With Things: Our brains delusions, and the Unmaking of the World disagree with Brian and Steven Pinker’s notion of progress.
Thanks, Brian! I am totally amazed by the incredible positive change (increased social tolerance, but still not adequate of course) that has occurred in my part of the world during my 72 years here! I believe that it is an indicator of how people can be influenced or moved by protest, progressive laws, economic progress, nonviolent social pressure and just plain love that comes from actually getting to know the perceived "other." BUT, as Paul says, this is a pretty clueless way to see things, I have to admit. As Dionne says, we need to act to protect what we love. Please vote! and encourage everyone else to vote, too!
Thank you, Brian. According to Harvey Whitehouse in “Inheritance” the spread of moralizing religions has spread cohesive tolerance throughout conquered empires. Perhaps the lack of conquest in recent history, thankfully, has influenced the convergence of values. Of course the US is being divided artificially lately.
As to my opinion, from a survey question, concerning a wife making more money than her husband, I have but two words. “Crack on!!”
Do you think that the value of tolerance in the West is driven by ignorance or by understanding? In other words, when people say they don't mind a gay neighbour, do they mean "I don't care whether they are gay or not, I care about their behaviour when I interact with them" or do they mean "I don't care whether they are gay or not as I wont interact with them at all"?
Reading this, it seems that the responses might be shaped by institutions as much as culture and ethnicity. Obviously, institutions are themselves shaped by culture and ethnicity, but I'm thinking about how churches, school, and politics for example are battlegrounds where people (and ideologies) who feel threatened wage concerted campaigns to fend of threats.
We see explicit rhetoric on a regular basis from countries in Asia, Africa, and the Middle East expressing chagrin — often understandable chagrin — with Western cultural hegemony, and I imagine there is some amount of intentional indoctrination (or counter-indoctrination) happening in these places, intentional efforts to fend off Western ideas.
I’m a bit late reading this very insightful and complex article. It’s so full of interesting information that it’s impossible to comment on all; so let me just ask:
If Fukuyama, Huntington and Modernization Theory are wrong, is there a common denominator theory, a “Theory of Everything” that captures the truth?
It’s hellishly complicated. We certainly are not all on the same page in the US of A. You’ve written about the illusion of democracy in America. Why do we have laws banning abortion, banning books, banning what teachers can teach, allowing repeated drunken drivers to stay on the road, to allow widespread access to guns when polls show a majority of citizens disapprove? Are we all that different from authoritarian states?
Fascinating, and maybe a little depressing, article. But this sentence (early on) is what really hit me:
“These debates too often conflate the way we wish the world would be with attempts to study how the world actually is—and the latter is an empirical question, not a moral one.”
The above dose of reality along with the financial satisfaction answers made me realize I am one of the luckiest people on the planet. Thank you for reminding me of both these things.
This should make heads explode! The world and cultural attitudes are different and why should we be surprised by that? Even within the US, and even within states there are huge cultural and value divides. So we really should not be shocked by any of these findings.
The problem is we in the West, despite becoming more tolerant, cannot easily wrap our heads around different cultural, social, and economic contexts unless one is well traveled such as you are, Brian. I say this as somebody who has traveled widely for work in Africa, SE Asia, and Latin America.
I would also argue that in the West, we have become too comfortable and then compare ourselves to the ultra wealthy or the famous making normal lives seem dull and often crushing. Maybe that explains the satisfaction results from Pakistan and other poor countries?
Arguments such as Fukuyama’s “End of History” or Huntington’s “Clash of Civilizations” show an arrogance in the West, and frankly a level of cluelessness and dismissiveness toward the rest of the world.
Nothing can change if we fail to understand what is in front of our eyes and understand the complexity and nuance of cultural and socioeconomic factors. While
The West may be more tolerant, it fails to recognize and understand context, nuance, and differences making it a “close minded” tolerance.
outstanding piece
I appreciate that your summary emphasised complexity and not taking for granted the values Westerners see around them. Especially so since there’s a large scale, well-funded effort to erode those progressive gains to drag countries back to intolerance. The political battles in the West (France, UK, Canada, US) are producing increasing gains for intolerance within nations even when the electoral outcome at the top appears to defend progressive norms. Protect values if you want to keep them.
Genuine question. Who answers the surveys and how are they conducted? Are they, for example, written surveys filled out in private? Is it phone or otherwise live? Especially in those parts of the world where women are severely limited, would results from those countries be skewed by male-only responses? Is that controlled for somehow?
Here you go! https://www.worldvaluessurvey.org/WVSContents.jsp?CMSID=WVS7MET&CMSID=WVS7MET
Most of us certainly luckier living in the West but that does not say that our notion of progress of endless material growth on a finite planet isn’t suicidal as it creates the greatest concentration of wealth-the growth of monopolies-oligarchs-plutarchy Gabor Mate in The Myth of Normal: Trauma, Illness in a Toxic Culture and Iain McGilchrist in The Matter With Things: Our brains delusions, and the Unmaking of the World disagree with Brian and Steven Pinker’s notion of progress.
Thanks, Brian! I am totally amazed by the incredible positive change (increased social tolerance, but still not adequate of course) that has occurred in my part of the world during my 72 years here! I believe that it is an indicator of how people can be influenced or moved by protest, progressive laws, economic progress, nonviolent social pressure and just plain love that comes from actually getting to know the perceived "other." BUT, as Paul says, this is a pretty clueless way to see things, I have to admit. As Dionne says, we need to act to protect what we love. Please vote! and encourage everyone else to vote, too!
Thank you, Brian. According to Harvey Whitehouse in “Inheritance” the spread of moralizing religions has spread cohesive tolerance throughout conquered empires. Perhaps the lack of conquest in recent history, thankfully, has influenced the convergence of values. Of course the US is being divided artificially lately.
As to my opinion, from a survey question, concerning a wife making more money than her husband, I have but two words. “Crack on!!”
One question Brian
Do you think that the value of tolerance in the West is driven by ignorance or by understanding? In other words, when people say they don't mind a gay neighbour, do they mean "I don't care whether they are gay or not, I care about their behaviour when I interact with them" or do they mean "I don't care whether they are gay or not as I wont interact with them at all"?
Reading this, it seems that the responses might be shaped by institutions as much as culture and ethnicity. Obviously, institutions are themselves shaped by culture and ethnicity, but I'm thinking about how churches, school, and politics for example are battlegrounds where people (and ideologies) who feel threatened wage concerted campaigns to fend of threats.
We see explicit rhetoric on a regular basis from countries in Asia, Africa, and the Middle East expressing chagrin — often understandable chagrin — with Western cultural hegemony, and I imagine there is some amount of intentional indoctrination (or counter-indoctrination) happening in these places, intentional efforts to fend off Western ideas.
Brian,
I’m a bit late reading this very insightful and complex article. It’s so full of interesting information that it’s impossible to comment on all; so let me just ask:
If Fukuyama, Huntington and Modernization Theory are wrong, is there a common denominator theory, a “Theory of Everything” that captures the truth?
It’s hellishly complicated. We certainly are not all on the same page in the US of A. You’ve written about the illusion of democracy in America. Why do we have laws banning abortion, banning books, banning what teachers can teach, allowing repeated drunken drivers to stay on the road, to allow widespread access to guns when polls show a majority of citizens disapprove? Are we all that different from authoritarian states?
Fascinating, and maybe a little depressing, article. But this sentence (early on) is what really hit me:
“These debates too often conflate the way we wish the world would be with attempts to study how the world actually is—and the latter is an empirical question, not a moral one.”
The above dose of reality along with the financial satisfaction answers made me realize I am one of the luckiest people on the planet. Thank you for reminding me of both these things.
I would put a lot of weight on closeness to family and the effect of religious beliefs. Also, the strength of the patriarchy and importance of honor.
This story in the Guardian is an example of the importance of family in Pakistan, which may offer a closer look at the reasons for the higher percentages of satisfaction. https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/sep/07/the-man-who-fell-from-plane-brother-who-retraced-his-journey?utm_term=66dc328b413ddaf51d95257ee4d5c79b&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUS&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTUS_email
Thanks, good article!