Hello. I really enjoyed your article, very interesting. I know little about politics or sociology, I am coming from the side of philosophy and religion. In fact, more specifically, I am coming from the side of the 7% you mention, the Buddhist community. As you know Buddhism does not teach the existence of any supreme God. Although it acknowledges gods in the plural they don't have the role of giving rewards and punishments for human ethical behaviour in a theistic way. And in fact this has long been one of my concerns because in other religions that particular role of the divine I believe does help tremendously with keeping people on an ethical track. So in the absence of God or gods who do this, what motivates a Buddhist to act virtuously and positively and altruistically?
The answer given in the Abhidharma literature (Buddhist philosophy and psychology) is shame and embarrassment. In other words, it is simply our own conscience. Shame refers to feeling uneasy because we know deep down we have done something wrong, and embarrassment refers to our reaction to the judgment and disapproval of our peers or social communiity. Either way, there is no reference to the divine at all and I guess, for the most part, it has worked within Asian Buddhist communities.
One problem this raises today for Buddhists in the west is that the peer/community pressure is lacking because there are so few Buddhists around, so then one has only one's own conscience to follow. The big question is, will that be enough to keep people on track? It's difficult.
One last point. I am not sure that everyone necessarily requires religion to develop trust or a sense of right and wrong, there may well be other ways, but for certain people religion does play that role to their satisfaction.
Too tired to respond to the overall fascinating arguments of this, except to say (re your chart) "YAY, Sweden." But I was totally entranced by that Coconut Courier Service. Think of it trying to operate here. The voices raised about sending innocent coconuts, unable to defend themselves, alone on public transportation, ready prey for perverted monkeys. Why, it's Coconut Abuse and we must pass laws to prevent it.
Do we need religion for building trust? Does not seem so in Sweden or the Netherlands. If anything in the US religion is a granfalloon as Vonnegut would call it! At worst it is a way to foster control in the way we see Christian Nationalism in the US as a form of control over women, minorities, and anybody who does not submit to their control.
As for the Coconut Service, it sounds like a Jimmy Buffett song title in the making. A modern day Coconut Telegraph!
Is knowing and acting right or wrong something that develops and starts early in life ? How important is empathy ? Brian writes about empathy – it’s well understood that it’s not something that people who do really bad things have much of. Is a tendency to behave well, badly or empathize helped along by a Big God, other teachers, stuff that happens in your life, your law makers, tribe, or a combination thereof ? Is it deterministic - no free will – it would have always turned out this way ? Is there some neurological wiring you are born with (or develop) that means you choose the utilitarian fork in the path ? The infinite variety of humanity is just that, and the mystery of the universe quite another, meantime “To whom it may concern” is a wise option I think.
are you saying the violence is a necessity? (I really hope not... ). from your point of view it also seems like u are saying that when the earth was not as populated that empires could more easily be less violent? (I am going to go out on a limb here and say) has violence become the newest god due to the growing populations of humans. I have mostly believed respect for others and the larger good can be a very effective 'form of government'.... does this get talked about in your book? I believe I have read much on the subject but I would love even more book recommends. 'there's gotta be a better way'...
Excellent read. Thank u. My question is do u think our closest relatives, the chimps and bonobos have gods? Bonobos successfully seem to live in large groups and rarely use violence to enforce rules... Bonobos use ostracism... Dont follow the rules? Then u dont share in communal food. Chimps on the other hand mainly use a dominate male (who may function as a god?) in order to enforce their rules. My point being if a bonobo or an orca or an elepant can have a functioning society that primarly does not rely upon the violence of an alpha male to enforce rules then how did human societies devolve into warring chimps? Do patriarchies need gods more than matriarchies? Finally why cant we use the laws of nature to be our god? (the belief if we respect the earth in her infinite wisdom she will care for us... (basically function as a god))... I guess once trust is broken, often thru the use of force, its hard to get back. I welcome comments...
Instructive and fascinating. Thank you.
Saw you on Morning Joe and got this article at the same time. Bravo and Bravo!
Hello. I really enjoyed your article, very interesting. I know little about politics or sociology, I am coming from the side of philosophy and religion. In fact, more specifically, I am coming from the side of the 7% you mention, the Buddhist community. As you know Buddhism does not teach the existence of any supreme God. Although it acknowledges gods in the plural they don't have the role of giving rewards and punishments for human ethical behaviour in a theistic way. And in fact this has long been one of my concerns because in other religions that particular role of the divine I believe does help tremendously with keeping people on an ethical track. So in the absence of God or gods who do this, what motivates a Buddhist to act virtuously and positively and altruistically?
The answer given in the Abhidharma literature (Buddhist philosophy and psychology) is shame and embarrassment. In other words, it is simply our own conscience. Shame refers to feeling uneasy because we know deep down we have done something wrong, and embarrassment refers to our reaction to the judgment and disapproval of our peers or social communiity. Either way, there is no reference to the divine at all and I guess, for the most part, it has worked within Asian Buddhist communities.
One problem this raises today for Buddhists in the west is that the peer/community pressure is lacking because there are so few Buddhists around, so then one has only one's own conscience to follow. The big question is, will that be enough to keep people on track? It's difficult.
One last point. I am not sure that everyone necessarily requires religion to develop trust or a sense of right and wrong, there may well be other ways, but for certain people religion does play that role to their satisfaction.
I have just started on Substack. Visit me at the softer gaze. https://dominiqueside@substack.com
I have also written a book called Discovering Buddhism with some philosophical chapters.
What a great fun read. You crack me up. apropos, see my recent KHIT.org post “Let Us Prey: U.S. "Christian Nationalists" are making plans for us”
Too tired to respond to the overall fascinating arguments of this, except to say (re your chart) "YAY, Sweden." But I was totally entranced by that Coconut Courier Service. Think of it trying to operate here. The voices raised about sending innocent coconuts, unable to defend themselves, alone on public transportation, ready prey for perverted monkeys. Why, it's Coconut Abuse and we must pass laws to prevent it.
Do we need religion for building trust? Does not seem so in Sweden or the Netherlands. If anything in the US religion is a granfalloon as Vonnegut would call it! At worst it is a way to foster control in the way we see Christian Nationalism in the US as a form of control over women, minorities, and anybody who does not submit to their control.
As for the Coconut Service, it sounds like a Jimmy Buffett song title in the making. A modern day Coconut Telegraph!
Is knowing and acting right or wrong something that develops and starts early in life ? How important is empathy ? Brian writes about empathy – it’s well understood that it’s not something that people who do really bad things have much of. Is a tendency to behave well, badly or empathize helped along by a Big God, other teachers, stuff that happens in your life, your law makers, tribe, or a combination thereof ? Is it deterministic - no free will – it would have always turned out this way ? Is there some neurological wiring you are born with (or develop) that means you choose the utilitarian fork in the path ? The infinite variety of humanity is just that, and the mystery of the universe quite another, meantime “To whom it may concern” is a wise option I think.
are you saying the violence is a necessity? (I really hope not... ). from your point of view it also seems like u are saying that when the earth was not as populated that empires could more easily be less violent? (I am going to go out on a limb here and say) has violence become the newest god due to the growing populations of humans. I have mostly believed respect for others and the larger good can be a very effective 'form of government'.... does this get talked about in your book? I believe I have read much on the subject but I would love even more book recommends. 'there's gotta be a better way'...
Excellent read. Thank u. My question is do u think our closest relatives, the chimps and bonobos have gods? Bonobos successfully seem to live in large groups and rarely use violence to enforce rules... Bonobos use ostracism... Dont follow the rules? Then u dont share in communal food. Chimps on the other hand mainly use a dominate male (who may function as a god?) in order to enforce their rules. My point being if a bonobo or an orca or an elepant can have a functioning society that primarly does not rely upon the violence of an alpha male to enforce rules then how did human societies devolve into warring chimps? Do patriarchies need gods more than matriarchies? Finally why cant we use the laws of nature to be our god? (the belief if we respect the earth in her infinite wisdom she will care for us... (basically function as a god))... I guess once trust is broken, often thru the use of force, its hard to get back. I welcome comments...